Section + Elevation workflow

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sidewalk
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Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:16 pm

Section + Elevation workflow

Post by sidewalk »

I'm currently testing out HD Professional for a potential purchase. As a former AutoCAD/Microstation user, my biggest hurdle with HD is that there is no x-ref support. I am accustomed to using x-refs and viewports to place multiple 1:1 "design drawings" onto a scaled sheet with a title block.

For instance, to draw exterior elevations, I would project each of the four elevations out from the floor plan. The floor plan would be in the center, and each elevation would be projected in it's respected direction - up, down, left, or right. I would then use x-refs and viewports to layout each elevation on a sheet - cropping it if necessary. The beauty of this system is that if I made a change to the plan, or to an elevation, that change would be automatically updated on the sheet - because of the live x-ref. Enlarged details could be handled the same way.

I've tried devising a similar system in HD, except using symbols (which can be automatically updated) instead of x-refs. The problem I'm facing now is that the current the line weight and layer attributes override all of the individual element attributes within a symbol as soon as it's placed.

In HD, what's the recommended workflow for projecting sections/elevations from a plan, and then laying them out on a sheet with a title block? How about for enlarged details?

Thanks in advance for the advice!

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matthew.Stanfield
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Re: Section + Elevation workflow

Post by matthew.Stanfield »

I was in a similar situation when i "switched" to HD. Coming from AutoCAD, i would tend to try and make HD work the same way, but the more i use HD, the more i like the way it works.

Anyhow, i am sure there are multiple solutions to your quandary, but being relatively inexperienced with HD (I have been in possession of it since December, but have really only done two small projects with it) i can only give you what i have come up with.

If the project is small, one possibility would be to have the working plan in the same file as the elevations and sections, though on a different sheet. Then the elevations and sections can be overlayed on the plan. The "problem" with this method is that once you move the elevations to lay them out for printing, they would have to be moved back if major changes to the plan required overhauling the elevations.

I was unaware of the ability to live update symbols, but i would think this certainly would be a reasonable way to accomplish what you are wanting to do. As far as the colors and lineweights go, you can insert a symbol using the symbols colors by checking the "Display symbol colors" box in the insert symbol dialog. This does not, however, seem to translate into lineweights though (i use lineweights by color) as symbols tend to output with a heavy lineweight regardless of their color. I have had to explode symbols to get them to output correctly, which i am sure would be counterproductive to what you are attempting to do.

I have come to think of my sheets in a similar way to viewports for the layout of projects. This way i can have multiple scaled objects on a single page by putting each drawing on its own sheet (though i do sometimes use multiple sheets for a single drawing depending on the situation). The title block, i generally put on a sheet scaled 1:1 that shows the page outlines so i can easily see the area in which i have to work. All other drawings are then put on sheets that are scaled appropriately and arranged on the title block sheet.

I hope my limited experience can be of help and does not confuse the issue too much.
matthew.Stanfield
Principal Architect
FiELD9: architecture
Mansfield, OHio
http://www.field9architecture.com

sidewalk
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Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:16 pm

Re: Section + Elevation workflow

Post by sidewalk »

Thanks for the thorough response, Matthew. Is there an easy way to move everything on one sheet as a single entity?

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matthew.Stanfield
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Re: Section + Elevation workflow

Post by matthew.Stanfield »

I am not exactly sure what you are asking, but i will do my best to answer.

If i need to move everything on a sheet, i use the select all (command-A) to select everything on the current sheet and move it. Alternatively, you could group everything on the sheet to move it and then ungroup it for editing.

On a somewhat related note, u have been experimenting with having notations and dimension on different sheets than the drawing they reference for ease of editing, but this does have the drawback of having to move them independently of the drawing. I place datum points on all three sheets that correspond to each other so i can move them to the same relative position. Then when i select all, the datum point is selected as well and i can snap to the datum points when moving the objects. Without the use of the datum point, it can be frustrating trying to get things lined up again.

If you are trying to move objects from one sheet to another, the command for that is in the Organize menu from which you can transfer or duplicate objects from one sheet to another.
matthew.Stanfield
Principal Architect
FiELD9: architecture
Mansfield, OHio
http://www.field9architecture.com

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alexwhite
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Re: Section + Elevation workflow

Post by alexwhite »

The View routine of naming views can support not only viewport but can support layer control. You can use this same viewport in the print routine... this is how I stack plans and elevations sometimes on top of one another and then via Layer and View controls can print what I want relative to that sheet.

The only real difference I notice compared to a true xref application is that drawing sizes get huge, slow, etc. So I end up turning off more layers to effectively work as projects move along.
fat guy in a little coat

sidewalk
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Re: Section + Elevation workflow

Post by sidewalk »

Thanks for the great input. I'll take these suggestions and continue to experiment.

Any experience on importing a DWG that relies on xrefs and viewports? How does HD handle this?

macitect
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Re: Section + Elevation workflow

Post by macitect »

I find that generally the dwg support is quite good. It takes a bit of cleanup, but really manageable.

As far as xrefs go it depends on how the file has been saved I would imagine... If the dwg is not exported with the xref embedded then it won't come through into any program. If, however it is included then you run the risk of having superimposed information getting all mixed together.

As far as viewports go not tat well really. As I am sure you already know in HD you draw in the scale that you plan to present in. Of course you can change the scale of any or all sheets, but the notion of drawing all at 1:1 scale and then scaling your viewports doesn't exist in HD.

If you'd like I can send you one of my files and you can see how I organise my drawings. I always use a combination of sheets and layers to create my actual (physical) pages. I think you'd be wise to also ask alexwhite for a sample of his work also.

cheers,
derek

SurfingAlien
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Re: Section + Elevation workflow

Post by SurfingAlien »

Derek,
if you don't mind I'd like to see that file too... i still have to find the touch about HD sheets organization.
i think you can send me a mail through the forum features but, if not so, i can give you another mail address via PM.
thank you very much,

Best regards,
Alessandro

macitect
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Re: Section + Elevation workflow

Post by macitect »

Alessandro,

Go ahead and send me your email through PM. I'm at home for lunch at the moment, but when I get back to the office I'll send it out to both you and sidewalk.

cheers,
derek

jmartinarch
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Re: Section + Elevation workflow

Post by jmartinarch »

So I am still scratching my head about Views. I experimented and I see that is takes a snapshot of a part of a drawing.
group of layers, on, off composed on just part of a sheet or page if you will. It seems a useful tool for looking back
at something. Comparing notes if you will. But how does one use it to compose a sheet ready for printing.
For instance, I was just considering how I might draft exterior elevations. Start by putting horizontal datum control Iines (floor, roof top plate, window header, grade, and foundation etc) then I could place a copy of the floor plan and extend lines, then rotate the floor plan (it is just a symbol or copy) for each other side.
But then I have four elevations aligned and all registered, but they won't fit on a sheet.
An average size building fits 2 up and 2 down. But does this require moving my drawings, or will Views accomplish this? Also I assume that I can draw outside the bounds of the sheet outline, it just won't get printed - right?

No, this isn't right....just tested. But there is this option in print preview to select a project view, but nothing changes when i select it. ...okay I need the manual.
I don't like the idea of moving my elevations and sections around after they are drawn to compose a sheet to print because when you have to make changes, it is difficult to make sure everything is registered correctly.

Suggestions please.
Thanks,
john

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matthew.Stanfield
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Re: Section + Elevation workflow

Post by matthew.Stanfield »

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but as far as i know, there is now way to do what you are asking in HD. Drawings must be moved to be located on the page.

Project Views do not work at all like viewports. Like you said, they basically take a snapshot of the file and saves it for future reference. This is more like having multiple layouts in AutoCAD. The Project Views save the view scale, the visible sheets, and the visible layers so you can quickly move between different drawings or pages. I use Project Views extensively to define my pages. Once i have a page laid out with the title block and drawings, i create a Project View of that page with the appropriate sheets and layers made visible so i can quickly move between my pages for printing and editing.

The option to select a Project View when printing just allows you to print a particular View without having activated it in the file.

I hope this helps clarify a little bit.

As far as having to move the elevations, the guide lines can be copied to help keep the elevations registered / aligned. Alternatively, you can place datum points on the elevation sheet as well as on the plan underlay to help quickly realign the drawings for editing.
matthew.Stanfield
Principal Architect
FiELD9: architecture
Mansfield, OHio
http://www.field9architecture.com

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alexwhite
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Re: Section + Elevation workflow

Post by alexwhite »

I use views sim to Matthew - moving from drawing to drawing via views built in sheet/layers saves time especially in large projects.
fat guy in a little coat

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