printing

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macitect
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printing

Post by macitect »

Well 1.6.2 is great, but one thing is still frustrating me. On a particular drawing I have a plan and several elevations set up. Each different element has a seperate sheet and each sheet is ASME B (11x17). I have set the print areas as ASME B using the snaps to set them exactly over the sheets. However when I go to print, a scale factor of 100% speads the print areas over 4 sheets (which I don't want!!!) and scaling it to fit the physical paper changes the scale factor to 95.281%.
How can I get an ASME B format to print on an ASME B sheet at 100% ?!?! I want the printed versions to be accurate so that measures can be taken from them.
Any help greatly appreciated as always.

cheers,
macitect

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alexwhite
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Post by alexwhite »

I echo your comments. I believe its a code error and its been around for a long time. I usually get a reduction of 98.xxx% so I haven't complained too much.

Here's what I believe is happening:

Select the page size and orientation in Page Setup. For example you pick 11x17 landscape.

Select the page size in the Sheets diakog, along with show boundaries, etc. The light blue boundary is assumed to be the page size printer boundaries (from the core OS printer settings). I test this because I can deselect the show page boudaries, change the orientation to portrait in the Page Setup, then reselect show boudaries and the margins change as they should.

When the print area box is being created, as different page sizes are displayed as reference you see the "11x17" as you get close to completing the print area snap. You finish the print area selection. And here is the coding error. The application forces the "11x17" actual dimensions into the blue Sheet boundary which is really the printer margins (slightly less than 11x17 actual).

Therefore, when the Print Preview routine is ran, the print area grabs the actual page size and forces it into the page margin. For some reason, everyonce in a while, I can not find a print area I have set up, or the Print Preview box reduces the size to like 99.888...% or gets the page at 100%.

Overall, I think its a little buggy.
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macitect
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Post by macitect »

Thanks ybalx,

I agree the whole printing process needs to be revisited. I will submit the contents of this thread as an improvement request.

cheers,
macitect

ps when I am finished this one I will send you a copy of the file to show you how I've been working with HighDesign...

steven
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Post by steven »

This is disturbing to hear. As a working architect I get paid for my output (drawings) and they need to be accurate. This needs to be fixed NOW!!

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Andrew
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Post by Andrew »

I read the whole thread and I think there is a bit of confusion about the printing process and Print Areas.

Each sheet in HighDesign can display its own page frame, which you set by opening the Sheet Size dialog and selecting the desired page. The page frame you see in the main window when you click OK represents the actual boundaries of the selected page, at a 1:1 scale. This means that any drawing touching those boundaries will be printed on more than one page, because printers have margins beyond which they cannot print. Margins change with vendors and printer models, meaning that each printer has its own.

The Sheet Size dialog provides the Margins checkbox, which enables the margins of the current printer and are displayed as thin cyan lines within the page frame. In order to print on one page, your drawing should never cross those lines.

Image

Once page size and margins are set correctly, all you have to do to print is:
  1. 1. Hide all the undesired sheets and layers
    2. Open the Print Preview window
    3. Set the Printable Area to "Whole drawing"
    4. Optionally set the penweight and color options
    5. Print
As long as you don't check the Fit to One page option in Print Preview, and your printer can handle the selected page size, the drawing will always be printed accurately, at exactly the scale you set.

If your printer cannot handle a specific page size, or you are going to print on a different printer, you can still set the margins of the destination printer by using the system Page Setup options. You will probably see a quick tutorial on this in the Tips & Tricks section.

Print Areas serve a different purpose: They were designed to print only a part of the drawing, usually on one page as a quick review.
You don't have to create a Print Area if you want to print the whole drawing. The page size references you see when constructing a print area were added later by request, though we thought it would create some confusion as this thread seems to confirm.

The whole problem is really caused by the Print Areas representing the full page, not the printer margins.
In the next updates, we will probably make them stick to the current margins, even though this too brings some issues of document portability because the print area created with the margins of one printer may not correspond to those of another. Anyway, we will opt for the best solution possible as usual.

I hope this helps clearing the matter a bit.

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alexwhite
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Post by alexwhite »

Andrew, thanks for your reply... alas here's the rub.

Your answer works well if your drawing is not larger than the page margin borders. As soon as your drawing breaks over a page margin border, the Print Preview forces the plot to more than one page. Select "Fit to one page" and the reduction problem.

So the only way around this right now is to use Print Areas. And as you note, the print areas snap the actual page size to the margins which results in a slight reduction.

I suppose this is not much of a problem if you're plotting to larger paper sizes. For me, my typical plot size is ASME 11x17 inches. At 1/4 scale, none of my drawings fit. Spanning a plot across more than one page is not really a professional solution especially considering titleblocks ,etc.
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alexwhite
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Post by alexwhite »

For me, the solution is for the Print Area should snap to the Sheet page margin, knowing that changes on printer and orientation, and reflect a 1:1 ratio.

The other thing that is nice about the Sheet Page margin is that they seem to be the only snap-able object on the sheet. So when you move a sheet, then want to move it back and overlay another sheet exactly, the page margin corners snap.
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew »

I realize I forgot to mention that Print Areas can be of any size you want, not just of the predefined page sizes. In fact, the pages you see when constructing a Print Area are just suggested, optional sizes.
In the same way, you can edit any existing print area and reduce it by 2 or 3 inches, depending on your printer's margins.
As soon as your drawing breaks over a page margin border, the Print Preview forces the plot to more than one page.
Apparently, sometimes print margins are slightly larger than those the printer actually expects, hence the multiple pages in Print Preview. We did some tests, and this problem occurred inconsistently a couple of times, but at this point we are not yet able to say whether it is a problem caused by HighDesign or by the printer.
The solution for now is to resize the print area a bit, i.e. half a inch in both width and height, until it prints on one page.
Select "Fit to one page" and the reduction problem.
This option applies a proportional reduction to the drawing, not a crop, and it should not be checked if the drawing must be printed at the correct scale.

macitect
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Post by macitect »

I am glad that my question started this discussion because there are a lot of things that I didn't realize and this has been really helpful. Thank you both for the prompt and detailed replies.

Andrew, I think that the printing is one area that could use a fair amount of simplification and streamlining. I have been trying to print multiple sheets from one file (plan and elevations) and can never seem to get my title block to appear in the exact same position on each page. (I can send you the file if you would like to see it.) I wish that the printing was more WYSIWYG insofar as the alignment in the print preview dialogue seems to base itself on the centre point of all the different elements. This means that if my title block is in the same position relative to the different sheets it still comes out in different spots based on the centre of the entire drawing on the sheet I intend to print.

Finally, one more question... what is the best way to print multiple scales on one paper sheet (ie details on the same sheet as an elevation)?

Thanks again, cheers,
derek

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TrevorML
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Post by TrevorML »

Hi macitect

One way to get your Title Block in the same position is... if you use the Pro version of HD... put the title info on a separate Sheet... and then make sure that it is visible... and also has the option to not be dimmed (can't think of the terminology used ... at work on a PeeCee!!!)... and then the titles will print out in exactly the same spot for all sheets... assuming the sheet size is the same size as the printer paper you are using it works fine...

cheers
Trevor

macitect
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Post by macitect »

thanks for the tip Trevor. Does this mean though that I would stack all my sheets one on top of the other?

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TrevorML
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Post by TrevorML »

How I understand it... again going from memory... still at work... sheets are automatically stacked on top of each other with no manual lining up necessary...

I just had each sheet set to the same size and page orintation... with the base sheet as the titles... then Plan... elevations... sections... details... electrical plan... roof framing plan... etc

could use the same sheet layering idea to have the title and drawing frame on the bottom... then the basic plan... then the different services layouts that relate to the same plan on separate sheets above the plan sheet

for the sheet numbering and differentiating titles... the base title sheet had the sheet name... sheet number... sheet scale... etc left blank and these were then added in the corresponding location on the relevant sheets above


have to remember to make all sheet below the current active sheet fully visible... not sure as I said what HD refers to this as... at the time of printing... either to image... pdf... or paper... as otherwise the sheets below the active sheet will come out as a stipple/lighter colouring... this feature is there so that the below sheets don't distract one too much when working on the currently active sheet... much like sheets of tracing paper stacked on top of each other in "real" draughting

if you like I can dig out an example .dsn file and email it to you when I get home... altho may be late... have a theatre dance piece to go and see tonight as a part of the Adelaide Festival of Arts...

[[[for the HD team...
the Italian Compagnia di Valerio Festi (Studio Festi) presented the opening ceremony... Il Cielo che Danza (The Dancing Sky)... for 3 nights... absolutely brilliant... and all free]]]

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alexwhite
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Post by alexwhite »

This is how I use a titleblock.

I created a typical drawing with a sheet.
Identified the typical page setup.
Made print boundaries visible
Draw the titleblock
Select the titleblock and print area
Make a new symbol

For a new drawing or sheet

create a layer called Title 1, Title 2, and so on
create a new sheet
insert the titleblock symbol, using the page margins as snaps
explode and delete the print area associated with the titleblock because the name of this print area can cause havoc with the print preview (doesn't seem to recognize the print area name inserted as a symbol.

Thanks and I agree Printing should be more straight forward.
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alexwhite
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Post by alexwhite »

For multiple scale details I use sheets

Start with the original drawing
Select the portion you want to detail
Copy/duplicate to a new sheet
Change the scale
You'll have to either readjust dimension and note dialogs to resize text for the new sheet in order to keep it the same size overall (compared to different sheets with different scales.

You can also select objects and rescale them on the same sheet, but if you need to dimension something at a different scale, the sheet scale over rides.
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew »

A good example of how to structure a project using sheets is the "Farnsworth house" project file in the Examples folder of the 1.6.2 update.
Thanks and I agree Printing should be more straight forward.
Where exactly is it not straightforward?

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