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Beagle
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complain's

Post by Beagle »

hello
Sorry for the bad english, but I will explain some thing. I hope that it is understandable.

When I read this forum, I got the Idea that most of the users from HD are situated into the architectural sector and that most of them used "Autocad"
I came from a different environment. CAD. miniature mechanical engineering.
I have used before the "Student-version" of "Vectorworks". As a hobbyist I can not afford 1600€ for a full version of "vectorworks". So I was scanning the internet to find an affordable replacement for "Vectorworks".
The best I found was this "High design".
But ......

I have a lot of problems with is.
Not with the program, crashes etc.
The problem with me, is the concept. !!!! The use.

Let me explain what I wanted to do.
I scanned some pictures out of a technical book . A mine-sweep device at scale 1:48. and have to make drawings of it at scale 1:72.
Having the three scanned views Top, front, side. I created 3 layers as L1-L2-L3 and imported the *.jpg image in each layer.
Knowing the external dimensions of the device; I shrink the *jpg. images to meet the measurements I want to obtain.
Then I create for each part to be made, a different layer. Each layer with his own color.( wood, base, Frame, drum, brake, handles, steam engine,etc)

Then I make view visible but locked pe. L1. and want to draw on layer "Wood" with the picture as a guide.
So far so good. But some time I must move the *.jpg picture. so I select the picture layer and move the object. ( the three scanned vieuws are not at the same exact dimentions.)
At that time the picture is no more on the correspondending layer L1 but has moved to the layer "wood".
And I have payed attention to lock al the other layers. only one layer is unlocked. and two layers are visible.

What I expect for A CAd program is that when I put A line, a picture on a layer, is that that line, that picture STAY"S on that layer en can not move by itself to an other Layer.

I have a lot of problem with the concept of layers in this program. For me a layer has a color and every thing on that layer have the same color. I don't understand why objects on a layer may have different colors. It only leed to confusion.
Ship modelling is not a hobby, it has become a way of live. © Brian King.
Als je ouder wordt, wordt alles slechter, behalve het vergeten, dat wordt steeds beter ..

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Andrew
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Post by Andrew »

Hello Beagle,

in HighDesign, the only way to move an object to a different layer is:
1. Select the object
2. Choose the new layer from the pop-up menu on the main window.

That's it. No additional dialogs, buttons or "Are you sure" alerts. Now, is it possible that you chose the "Wood" layer while the image was still selected?
I am asking this because, based on the support requests of this kind we received in the past, 9 times out of 10 that was the reason.

A locked layer cannot have its items selected, but that does not mean it does not accept more items from other layers.

As for the layer-object color relationship, the ability to use any object color within any layer or sheet is an additional degree of freedom for the designer. All modern CAD programs provide this feature, and HighDesign makes no exception, especially since it does not have to deal with decades-old source code. If you want to bind the color of objects to that of the parent layer, you can activate the "ByLayer" option on the Colors menu. With that option on, any new objects gets the color of its layer.

Hope this helps clearing things up a bit.

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Andrew
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Post by Andrew »

Just one more thing: perhaps some of the difficulties with the layers concept in HighDesign depend on your background as a VectorWorks user.

In fact, VectorWorks calls "Layer" what in HighDesign Pro is a "Sheet", whereas a "Layer" in HighDesign corresponds (approximately) to a VectorWorks "Class".

In VW, you can choose another layer with some objects selected, but those objects do not move across layers, they are just grayed out, meaning you have switched to a different working plane.
In HighDesign, choosing a different layer with one or more objects selected will always move those objects to the new layer, making it easier to organize a project with much less mouse clicks.

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Beagle
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Post by Beagle »

andrew wrote:Hello Beagle,

in HighDesign, the only way to move an object to a different layer is:
1. Select the object
2. Choose the new layer from the pop-up menu on the main window.

That's it. No additional dialogs, buttons or "Are you sure" alerts. Now, is it possible that you chose the "Wood" layer while the image was still selected?
I am asking this because, based on the support requests of this kind we received in the past, 9 times out of 10 that was the reason.

A locked layer cannot have its items selected, but that does not mean it does not accept more items from other layers.

As for the layer-object color relationship, the ability to use any object color within any layer or sheet is an additional degree of freedom for the designer. All modern CAD programs provide this feature, and HighDesign makes no exception, especially since it does not have to deal with decades-old source code. If you want to bind the color of objects to that of the parent layer, you can activate the "ByLayer" option on the Colors menu. With that option on, any new objects gets the color of its layer.

Hope this helps clearing things up a bit.
Thanks for the explenation.
But the problem is that I don't want to move the object.!!!!!!
and that some times the object moves !!!!!!

I find it very difficult to discus the matter. Difficult to explain.
So I send you a mail with a lot of screen prints and my comment about it.
On this matter of layers I still find it confusion, possible to make user errors and/or manipulations. and therefore a raison not to chooce HD as a Cad program.
Ship modelling is not a hobby, it has become a way of live. © Brian King.
Als je ouder wordt, wordt alles slechter, behalve het vergeten, dat wordt steeds beter ..

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Beagle
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Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:54 am
Location: Belgium

Post by Beagle »

andrew wrote:Hello Beagle,
If you want to bind the color of objects to that of the parent layer, you can activate the "ByLayer" option on the Colors menu. With that option on, any new objects gets the color of its layer.
I have put the option by layer when I create the layer.
see the screen layouts in the mail I send You !!
Or there is a bug into the program, or the program dit not remember the Option "By layer" but when I change the layer I have to put "the color by layer every time again !!!!
Image
as you can see on the printscreen
The current layer is motor, the layer color is red, the option "By layer" was made when creating the layer and as you can see the current collor is Black == 255 !!!!! every time I came back to the layer !!!!

And that is time consuming, possibility to make errors and create a lot of frustrations. You must pay more attention to the behaviour of the program instead of focussing on the drawing project.
Last edited by Beagle on Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ship modelling is not a hobby, it has become a way of live. © Brian King.
Als je ouder wordt, wordt alles slechter, behalve het vergeten, dat wordt steeds beter ..

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Beagle
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:54 am
Location: Belgium

Post by Beagle »

andrew wrote:In VW, you can choose another layer with some objects selected, but those objects do not move across layers, they are just grayed out, meaning you have switched to a different working plane.
In HighDesign, choosing a different layer with one or more objects selected will always move those objects to the new layer, making it easier to organize a project with much less mouse clicks.
The problem again is that when you have done with some thing on a layer . pe. moving the picture 0,7 mm. to the right and forgot to deselect it. than you chanche to a other layer, to continue the drawing; your previous selected object moves always. "I want it to stay on that layer".

What I expect is that when I select a object on a layer move it with "appe-T" and do the final click that the object become automatically deselected. And not that I have to push the "esc key" every time.
Ship modelling is not a hobby, it has become a way of live. © Brian King.
Als je ouder wordt, wordt alles slechter, behalve het vergeten, dat wordt steeds beter ..

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Andrew
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Post by Andrew »

Beagle wrote:Thanks for the explenation.
But the problem is that I don't want to move the object.!!!!!!
and that some times the object moves !!!!!!

I find it very difficult to discus the matter. Difficult to explain.
So I send you a mail with a lot of screen prints and my comment about it.
On this matter of layers I still find it confusion, possible to make user errors and/or manipulations. and therefore a raison not to chooce HD as a Cad program.
We understood your point quite well, and all of your problems with layers arise from the fact that HighDesign cannot be forced to work exactly as VectorWorks. That's not possible, because:

• HighDesign and VectorWorks are two different programs, developed with different mindsets and targets, and in different time frames. VW, as most if not all other CAD programs on the Mac, was designed and developed many years ago. HighDesign was designed from scratch in 2001, and therefore the development did not have to deal with fragments of code dating from the 80's. We were free to choose the best approach to perform basic tasks like layer assignment.

• We are persuaded that layer assignment in HighDesign is easier and quicker. Compare the two procedures: Cut and Paste takes 4 steps, which are Select object, Cut, Choose layer, Paste. HighDesign allows you to save two steps: Select object, Choose layer.

• We think software development should be about innovation, with the aim of making people's life better. If we are forced to implement procedures that were designed 20 years ago instead of replacing them with better and more appropriate ones, then we can say goodbye to innovation, and join the copycat crowd.

Now, honestly, if you do not deselect the object before choosing a different layer you cannot expect it to stay on the original layer, since the program was designed to work this way. Besides, this behaviour is perfectly consistent with the other tools and the Mac user interface, as well as many other CAD and illustration programs.
If there is an object selected, the program assumes you want to do something with it. Deselect it, and it will not be changed. As simple as that.

If this is a reason for not choosing HighDesign, then I wonder what software will meet your expectations. Oh, and it also must have free, same-day tech support, with direct access to the developers and customized beta releases.
Unless you want to experience the joys of paying for an email or a call to a call-centre in Bangalore.

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